Wednesday, December 25, 2013

Why do women tolerate beta orbiters?

One of the more interesting questions that I think PUA and evo-psych types never bother to address is the question of why, if women supposedly hate beta males so badly, do they tolerate them?

First, it's worth noting here that "hate" is too strong of a word. The fact that a woman does not want to fuck a guy should not be construed as hating him. The world simply isn't that binary, so please grow the fuck up a bit, willya?

Second, just because she won't fuck you and you seem a lot like some pussyish guy she hangs out with who she also will not fuck, that does not necessarily entail that she sees that guy the same way as she sees you. The only thing you and that guy have in common is that you're both wimps who she won't fuck. That's not the same thing as hating him.

Anyhoo . . . why tolerate beta males?

Other people make great social props

Man is a social animal who also happens to be a fairly sexual animal. We're not social to the point of being ants. And we're not sexual to the point of being bonobos (thank gawd, because I'd have to quit the game entirely then). Socialization and sex are not one-for-one commodities, not by a long shot. In fact, they're not exchangeable at all. You can't just build up enough socialization points and then cash them in for sex. Doesn't work.

In fact, you don't absolutely need socialization in order to have sex. And you don't need sex in order to socialize (big win for people at Comicon). Being considered a sexual winner can help you socialize. And being considered a social winner can help you get laid.

At the end of the equation, social points can only buy you a ticket to the sexual dance . . . you still have to make all of the moves to jump from socializing to sexualizing. In fact, this is one of the few things that the PUA blogs get very right: escalation. At some point, if you're trying to make that jump, you have to make it clear to your partner that socialization is over and that sexualization has begun. This is where the thinly defined boundaries of consent start coming into resolution.

Here's the thing: you need more social props than you do sexual props.

Anyone who has ever known someone who completely subverted their social existence in order to be with one sexual partner will tell you this. Socialization, once it has been engaged and obtained, requires more effort than does sex, once it has been engaged and obtained. Once you've obtained a satisfactory pairing for both partners, it's actually pretty easy to throw away all of the props in your life and just submerge yourself in that person -- and in fact this is one of the reasons that love can be such a massively destructive force in people's lives.

Socialization works the opposite way. Once it has been obtained, it requires the continued acquisition of additional props. This means buying drinks, buying clothes, buying a car, having friends, Facebook, etc, etc, etc.

Beta males make excellent props. They're not a threat. They work hard for your attention. They can be sold off as boyfriends or as orbiters to other females as a reward for their friendship. They can be held in reserve as potential long-term mates. Their presence will ward off the weakest males and allow the female in question to select her suitors better for aggressive traits.

On balance, they're pretty fucking useful when you get right down to it. They're like a fully matured life insurance policy. You can hang on to it, cash it out, sell it, trade it, leverage it. Whatever.

If beta males could be securitized, every value investor on the planet would stockpile them. And that's exactly what women do.

They'll do as a sexual prop in a pinch

Let's say there's a hot guy you like. You're making your best effort to get him to notice you, but it's just not clicking. For whatever reason, he just isn't coming over to talk to you. What's a girl to do?

Start giving that big bad beta of hers a few sexual hints and some hope!

Women who feel entitled to the best men get angry when the best men ignore them. Women who believe they're prime assets also believe in their own scarcity. This is to a great extent the great sales pitch of the hot chick: "Sex with me is rare and valuable."

Of course, just because something is rare does not mean it is valuable. Planet-swallowing blackholes are rare in our solar system -- it doesn't mean you want one to suddenly appear!

For something to be valuable, there has to be a market. Or at least the appearance of market. (Go ask the diamond industry -- because carbon ain't that valuable without regard to form. In fact, according to the anthropogenic theory of global warming, we have too much carbon.)

Beta male orbiters are great for creating the appearance of a market. Even better, because they've been conditioned to worry that they're misreading the chick in question, they won't get too upset when she tells him, "Oh, I'm sorry . . . I think you misunderstood."

The idea here is force the aloof alpha male into playing his hand. It's the old school "Going once . . .  goooing twice . . .  gooooooooooooing three times . . . " sales pitch. Of course, she never actually has to scream "Sold!" So she can lash the hell out of this sales pitch if she wants.

Orbiters have value within the female social circle

One thing that guys never quite get about female social-sexual behavior is that very little of it is aimed at us. A lot of it aimed at themselves. Some of it is aimed at their family. A little is aimed at society writ large. And a ton of it is aimed their friends and their competitors (who are often seen as the same group of people).

A lot of beta male orbiters fosters the sense that a chick is in-demand. This attracts other female friends who're hoping to ride the wave of the hot chick's popularity.

Loaning out these men is a critical part of how women reward their social circle members. It also allows a queen bee to buy herself distance between her and her friends. Likewise, it allows her to buy off potential competitors who might be within two points of her preferred mate.

If a chick is an 8, there's a good chance a number of her friends are in the 4 to 7 range. This means if she has a beta male 5 in the stable of orbiters, then she has an inventory that she doesn't want that she can sell at a pretty fuckin premium to her social circle. Every hot chick has a less attractive sister or cousin or high school best friend or faux friend from Facebook.

One of the highest status roles in a female social circle is that of matchmaker. A socially competent queen bee can solidify her position quickly by becoming the go-to female in the group for mate-pairing. And the easiest way to do this is to have a solid batch of beta males available to sell off to her friends. One of the strongest claims to power within a female social circle is to be able to utter "I set those two up".

Orbiters create jealousy within and beyond the social circle

Sometimes you just have to put a bitch down hard. It's a simple fact of the Mean Girl world.

Let's say you have a friend who's a 5 and she's dating a male 6. You're an 8. Guess what? Any time you want, you can wreck that bitch's relationship. You don't even have to fuck the guy. You just set him up to think he has a shot, and then drop his ass hard. Everyone sees it.

It ends up acting as a form of harem control within female social circles. You ever want to hear a song that's about some real shit? Dolly Parton's "Jolene". What's the song amount to? "I know you can fuck my man, but please take pity on me because it would destroy my world." Guys don't write songs like that, but women do.

Beta males also create some insulation between her and interlopers. They ward off weaker males. They shit test stronger males. They're going to hit on and drive off unwanted stronger females who attempt to enter the social circle. Beta males are a wonderful form of defense-in-depth.

Downside: even beta dick is a threat to group cohesion

There are downsides of course. If a woman is forced to put a beta male out of his misery, it usually makes her look bad to the other women, who tend to view the action as mean-spirited, misleading, cruel, etc, etc, etc. The other females also aren't fond of perfectly good sperm being thrown away if they think the guy might have hit on them.

The obligation to sell off male social circle members to other women also creates a ton of trouble in its own right.

Not every guy a girl keeps hanging on is doomed. Some are in fact alpha males held in waiting. She prefers to keep these guys unpaired, but in most cases she will be forced to pair them off. Her goal will always be to pair him off to the weakest friend she possibly can, that way she can then peal him off of the friend when she decides to give him a shot.

This has the benefit of providing a storage space for lesser alphas. It lends credibility to the idea that you're not hording the good men for yourself. It makes your friends look good, which in turn makes you look good.

It also makes you look like the Third Antichrist if you don't go about taking him from the your friend the right way. Make no mistake about it: hot chicks view their friend's boyfriends as a reserve supply of potential mates. this is why smart guys know to game a girls friends harder than they game her.

Unwanted sexual access to male family members

A woman's friends are going to press her for access to the highest value males she can supply. Remember: we're primates, and primates don't wait for the better primates to give them the better goods. Surrendering a reserve alpha male is an acceptable price to pay for lifelong friend, but there are other costs that are less acceptable.

Female friend orbiters will push for access to the queen's male family members. This means attractive brothers, cousins, and even the father. And they generally consider the permission requirements to be non-existent.  A quick exclamation of "He's your brother, stop being so fucking gross / possessive / ignorant / jealous /  mean / incestuos!" creates a major challenge to the queen bee.

A queen bee has the same investment in her relative's sexual success as any human being. She doesn't want her brothers aiming low any more than her dad wants her aiming low. Also, family dynamics create whole new obligations that can quickly destroy the social group. Now you have to answer to your family for abusing your weaker friends.

Also, if a lesser female can assert herself into your gene pool, it implies she might be your equal. That creates a major threat to the entire supply of available sperm if a friend who has been beaten down decides to come our of her shell and really elevate her game.

Put bluntly, there's a reason that women keep their friends away from their brothers if at all possible. Nothing makes a woman more queasy than when her friends start hinting at the sexual availability of her male family members.

If you're a teenage girl reading this, first off, congratulations for getting this far. Second, I have an experiment for you to run. The next time you talk to your friend, tell her that you think one of the guys in her family has a kinda deep, sexy voice. Just do it. The response will blow your fucking mind. Your friends really, really don't want you sexualizing their male relatives.


Beta males are wonderful holding assets. Women know this and they apply this knowledge every day. they trade their beta orbiters to weaker friends like Pokemon cards.

Also, what you see as a beta orbiter she might see as a lesser alpha worth keeping in the circle for that distant day when she decides to have kids. Girls loooooove that "I was just being immature and now I understand" rhetoric. A decade of unsuccessfully letting 8s spread her can always be ended by finally letting a 6 or a 7 out of orbit and in for a plowing. Look how many women nod approvingly to "He was my best friend and I should have married him sooner" rhetoric.

Let's be honest. If beta male game didn't work well enough to pass on genetic code, it would cease to exist within a couple generations. Women didn't just suddenly decide one day to start treating wimps like dirt. Sad sacks have been hanging around in orbit hoping for a chance for years. It's a feature, not a bug.


  1. Thank you man. Through reading your blog I've come to understand myself somewhat better. You put into words the life experience of an aloof man, and for that I'm grateful.

  2. Really interesting analysis man. I caught your blog a year ago, lost it, then just found it again. Your thoughts help put in perspective female behaviour. Makes me think back to previous instances in my life and see female dynamics much clearer now. Arguably can also be mirrored in male dynamics.

    1. I firmly believe that a lot of the dynamics that go into PUA stuff are applicable to both genders. The market for the blogs, the books, the advice, and all the seminars -- that is to say the money that drives most of it -- happens to be in chasing pussy. That doesn't mean that the logic stops there.

  3. wisdom filled with hatred is what has happened with you ....In non-white lands, a man will get killed or punched on face if he sexualises his friend's or for that matter anyone's sister..Girls would just giggle or sulk and forget it.

  4. Have been reading your blog since a few days, and among the many clever, interresting or disturbing posts, this one is a gem. Have been (and more or less still am) b-orbiter of a real-life Jolene. This phenomenon is the equivalent of cold war in a social circle, with the same destructive power and cascading consequences once the first salve is launched. Really shows the worst of all concerned....Including, and foremost, myself ;-)
    Anyway, excellent analysis and as a bonus I discovered the "Jolene" song and liked it (never though I would one day enjoy a song from dolly P., "country" is not really my stuff, being non-british european...)

  5. I found the blog after almost getting mixed up with a girl that has what I would describe as a harem of beta guys. Spot on analysis with respect to my experience.

    I've been reading through a lot of the other posts. It's like I am reading a short story of my life in some respect. I never knew how much my aloofness was attractive to women. My eyes are open now.

  6. I can't begin to express how problematic the OP is. It reduces the human person to an impulsive prisoner devoid of reason!

    Is it not self-evident that males and females are attracted to each other for the purpose of reproduction?

    Your analysis of wrong behavior is atrocious, because it makes no judgment! It's as if you're satisfied to comment on human degradation and moral decay, while doing nothing to solve the problem!

    People need to learn how to behave. No girl should ever go steady until she has a ring on her finger! And, an engagement diamond is NOT a prostitute's wage.

    Fornication is forbidden by the inflexible morality that permeates through the Universe.

    A girl should never pursue a male, because she gives up all her leverage! Any guy has the confidence to go after a sure thing! But he really has no confidence in himself. And, if a guy is confident, but he sows his seed indiscriminately, the Bible says,

    “The wicked shall perish from the face of the earth. Though they have many offspring, these will be criminals, drunkards and numb-skulls!”

    A truly strong man has control over his body. He elevates the woman’s person-hood above his own passion, making of her a true equal to himself, because he loves her more than he loves his own body. Such a man will man will have an obedient wife, because she is a gift to the man God calls ‘friend’.

    It's so cheap and tawdry. Beta orbiters are males who fear rejection; unsuitable as mates. No girl wants a man who's afraid to ask her out! What else is he afraid of?!

    I had a college roommate like the girls you describe in this thread; always partying! One morning she threw her panties at the ceiling.

    I said, "What are you doing?!"

    She said, "I can't remember anything from last night. But if my panties stick to the ceiling, I had a good time!"

    She was always depressed after more than 24 hours of sobriety. One time she said, "Fragile, I really feel down."

    So, I said, "Well, don't go find someone to feel you up. Recite the Rosary with me and Mother Angelica. I've never even touched myself impurely. You can be forgiven and live chastely. You'll be a lot happier."

    Women have forgotten how to blush! They perform acts so vile decent women prefer death! But you seem to be perfectly content is a world of soiled females, where fornication and godless perversions of the female act are expected!

    The Western female has turned against using her body in a way pleasing to God: to bear and nurse the man's offspring, preferably man-child.

    The woman was created 'from' the man, 'for' the man, to 'love' the man, 'please' the man, 'serve' the man; and to submit to the man's yoke in cheerful obedience all the days of her life.

    But she's not going to if she's used as a barren receptacle to sate the man's primal urge. Fornication ruins women for marriage! If a man loves a woman only for her flesh, but not her fertility, he doesn’t love her.

    The man was created 'guardian to the woman's chastity'. The most beautiful things about a woman are her chastity, fertility and obedience.

    So, now you have plenty of ammo to shoot at tradthots. Copy and paste all you want. But mend your wicked ways of manipulation and debauchery!

    1. I agree with none of this, but I had to pass this comment through for pure entertainment value! Actually LOLing.

    2. "They perform acts so vile "

      So . . . it's safe to say you don't have a Fetlife account, yes/no?

    3. "The man was created 'guardian to the woman's chastity'"

      On the bright side, we know where ISIS is retreating to after losing Mosul . . . the internet!

      I cannot thank you enough. I'm in full "are you not entertained!" mode.